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- June 21th, 2003
Rob Bowman
fires up Christian Bale and Izabella Scorupco to reign over digital
dragons
Patrick Lee, Science Fiction Weekly, Issue 273, July 15, 2002.
Rob Bowman, best known
for directing the X-Files feature film and several episodes of
the long-running series, takes on an invasion of a different sort
in his upcoming SF movie Reign of Fire: dragons. Bowman directs
Christian Bale, Matthew McConaughey and Izabella Scorupco in a
tale about a future Earth besieged by legions of the fire-breathing
beasts.
It's the second movie
for 20-year TV veteran Bowman, who directed episodes of several
SF series before becoming one of the principals behind the nine
years of The X-Files. He imprints his own filmic style on Fire
and its dragons, bringing a new way of looking at the mythic creatures.
The film shot for about 20 weeks on location in Ireland.
For Bale, the big-budget
movie marks a change. Welsh-born Bale, who first came to attention
as the young star of Steven Spielberg's Empire of the Sun, is
perhaps best known for his role as the yuppie serial killer in
American Psycho. In Fire, Bale plays his first action-hero role,
Quinn, the English leader of a band of survivors trying to eke
out an existence in a dragon-haunted world. He teams up with Van
Zan, McConaughey's character, a swaggering American dragon expert.
Scorupco's part in
Fire is only the latest in a series of action-girl roles. The
Polish-born resident of Sweden first gained international fame
as a Bond girl in Goldeneye and solidified her action credentials
in Vertical Limit. In Fire, Scorupco pilots a helicopter, comes
face to face with giant reptiles and holds her own with the boys.
Bowman, Bale and Scorupco
took a moment to speak with Science Fiction Weekly about Reign
of Fire, which opened July 12.
Rob Bowman,
can you tell us about the casting of this film, which is a little
unusual?
Bowman:
I think Christian came first. ... And it took a little doing to
get him to say yes, too. I wanted somebody who hadn't made a splash
in this arena before, [not] somebody who already had been associated
with another summer movie or another franchise of this kind. And
I was also was on a mission to make summer movies more interesting
for me to go see. ... I look after the audience when I make a
movie, and I want to make sure that the summer movies are getting
better. ... Sometimes the story suffers ... over action and effects.
And I think the way
you tell better stories is you write better scripts, and then
you have better actors, and then you do a better job of telling
the story when you're photographing a movie. And to me, that evolution
is fueled with stronger actors, more skilled actors, I think.
Actors that you don't know if they're going to survive at the
end of the movie. And actors who can ... play a character in the
movie. It's not about a star. It is a character-driven movie,
and the story is the star. So that informed who I was going to
go after.
Now Matthew is obviously
a star. But he looks so different, you don't recognize him. So
he comes on as Van Zan. Christian was initially reluctant, because
he thought the original script, which I agree with ... [was] just
was a bit exaggerated, I thought. But the central idea was strong.
And I convinced him that I was going to tone it down and be very,
very strict about the reality of the movie, that the characters
would be three-dimensional. The movie would be about the characters
living in a world overrun by dragons. Not a lot about dragons.
And I shot the movie from the actors' point of view. There's not
a lot of helicopter-swooping shots ... because I don't care about
the dragons. I care about the people. The dragons are what makes
life hard for the humans.
The criteria for [Scorupco's]
character was that she had to be able to stand with the boys.
And I didn't want to have a babe in there who looked like I plugged
her into the movie because she was cute. I wanted someone who
was handy. And I thought she was very handy, very capable in James
Bond and equally so in Vertical Limit. And I thought she had a
good frame, a good soldier's frame. And so basically what I did
was throw as much dirt on her as I possibly could. I gave her
big bags under her eyes and knocked her down, so that she didn't
look like the babe in the movie. She is, but I ... made sure that
her clothes weren't too tailored. I didn't make her butt look
good or anything. ... She's in the uniform. And ... she had to
have a soul, because she's a person who basically ordered these
guys out of the helicopter, and she's likely not to see them again.
And that's her duty. But it doesn't mean that she has no heart.
And it's heartbreaking.
Can you talk
about the conceptualization of dragons in this film?
Bowman:
The last good dragon movie was Dragonslayer. ... I sat down with
an illustrator and made drawings that represented what I wanted
to see. And then we went through about nine months of design,
because I realized it wasn't just making an illustration, give
it to a computer artist and then you have a dragon. You have to
build it. You have to build the feet. How long is the tibia? How
long is the fibula? How wide are the hips? What's its gait? What's
the length of the neck? What's the head position? What's the jaw?
Every single inch of this dragon is designed. But there's a great
deal of naturalism in it. ... We watched a lot of National Geographic.
We watched a lot of snakes. We watched leopards crawling in the
grass. ... If you put in your movie a creature [for which] there's
no built-in or innate reaction to its attitude or behaviors, the
audience has too far to go to worry about it. As opposed to if
it sounds like a cobra, and the scales are kind of like an alligator,
and the crawl is kind of like a leopard, the audience has innate
reactions to those things. Because ... they've either been to
the zoo, they've been to Africa or they've seen National Geographic.
And they know that that looks sort of organic.
I made the dragons
as small as I possibly could, so that it could still be intimidating.
I did not ever want to make Godzilla, because they made it, good
or bad. ... Big just seemed old-fashioned to me. But at some point,
they start to become too small. And what I found was that, based
on the way I wanted them to fly, which was gliding, that they
had to have huge wingspans, 300 feet for the big one at the end,
which I thought was huge. Well, if I make them any smaller, they'll
fall out of the sky. You've got to flap a lot, like an albatross.
Or like in Dragonheart: It's a big, giant torso and small wings,
so he's got to flap all the time, almost like a hummingbird. So
I went with more of a serpent torso or fuselage or whatever you
want to call it, with a very supple spine, so he could fly very
agilely.
Coloration, we went
through every imaginable blend of colors, and came up with black.
Black's the only one that left an impression on you. And I was
trying not to go with black, but every other variation I saw just
didn't have any impact. They have yellow stripes down their bellies,
but that's mostly because cobras do. Or the lighter belly, like
an alligator has. And you know what, one drop of purple, and he
becomes Barney. Not a lot of purple. Just a little bit. ...
And then the walk,
I made the walk, it was actually a dubbing battle that I had.
To me, my dragons don't tear the rice paper [when they walk].
They're very, very gentle when they walk and quiet and stealth.
So they don't go, "Boom boom!" They go [mimes crawling].
So we're dubbing the other day, and the producers say, "Can
we put, like, big boom boom boom?" ... I said, "They
don't do that. I mean, look, the foot is only a foot off the ground.
And he puts his foot down, and he pulls and pulls." And they're,
"Please, please?" So I pumped it up a little bit. But
if you really look at the animation, they walk very carefully.
...
And then you think
about how real is the world going to be? How realistic are we
going to make the sets? Well, hard core. Like World War II London.
The dragon has to fit into that. He can't be too perfect, too
shiny, too sharp, too clean, or he won't fit into that set. ...
He's made this world. He's got to look like he caused it, integrate
right into it. So everything was dusty and dirty and lots of holes
in the wings, to make it look like he'd been through a few battles.
It's all about putting it all in the same world and making you
believe that everything's consistent.
How did you
come up with the look of this post-apocalyptic world?
Bowman:
Basically, it is because the dragons basically do what they do
to cause ash. ... Just imagine Mount St. Helens. That's all it
is. And if I could have afforded it, the sky would have always
been black or gray, and it would have always been snowing ash.
Always. It was just too expensive, plus I was shooting in a lot
of national parks [in Ireland], and you can't be dropping ash
on national monuments. ... Once it rains, it's in the soil.
How difficult
was it to protect the story from being overrun by the effects?
Bowman:
It never became a threat, because I wouldn't let it happen. I
would never let that happen. I was too aware of it. Dragons serve
my story. A lot of things could have happened. The set design
could have gone awry. The lighting could have gone awry. The acting
could have gotten melodramatic. The emphasis of the story might
have been shifted from the story of these people to the story
of the dragons. It's not the story of the dragons. It's the story
of these people surviving in these terrible circumstances, and
the dragons caused it. And I know that we only have a certain
amount of time to tell a story, and if I want to make the characters
more complex, then that takes away from something else. So I said,
the dragons are cunning, they're smart, they anticipate, they
strike when they think you're the weakest, and that's it. Their
singular intention is to kill and eat. ... And I wanted the movie
to be so centered around the characters that I made sure that
I shot the dragons from the characters' point of view. I was careful
to make sure that the geographical distance between the dragons
and humans was what raised and lowered the tension meter. Dragons
far away, doesn't see you, you got a chance. Dragon sees you and
is coming in at 150 mph, your chances are getting slimmer. Dragons
on top of you, you're dead.
Have they
talked about a sequel?
Bowman: If it makes
enough money, they will. I've asked. I said, "Do you think
you'll do a sequel?" And they said, "We'll see."
Christian
Bale, this is an unusual film for you to make.
Bale:
I was kind of surprised that they were interested in me for it.
Just because it's not like any kind of movie that I've done before.
And so that surprised me. And I've liked the idea of making all
different kinds of movies, all sort of genres of movies. And I've
always kind of hoped that every genre of movie can be made really
well, if it's done with the right people. And I've certainly enjoyed
going along to huge movies like this, with so much action, etc.,
before. But I have often found that special effects often seem
to get completely in the way of any kind of storytelling and any
kind of character. And when I met with Rob about it, he had all
of the same concerns that I did about what could go wrong. Because
there are so many things that can go really badly wrong with the
bigger budget that you're getting on a movie, and especially with
a movie about dragons.
I kind of wanted to
know that it was a very strong-minded person who was going to
be directing it, because otherwise I was sort of fearful that
I would be making one movie, and then in CGI, they would put in,
like, friendly dragons or something, or dragons with hats on,
or dragons that talked, or something like that. And I would have
no control over that whatsoever. But would just be mortified that
I was in such a movie. So when I met with Rob, his concerns were
exactly the same, and we sort of made a pact: ... "Let's
do this as long as we can ensure that we get to make the movie
that he wants to make."
This was a
very physical role for you.
Bale:
What I found that I actually enjoyed, that I didn't realize I
would, was actually the action elements of it all. ... There were
some injuries. Matthew head-butted me in a phenomenal fashion
one time on set. On film. It is actually in the movie. And I came
up with a huge kind of welt on my forehead from it. And everybody
around said it sort of sounded like some watermelon cracking.
Because we had all these walls around the location, so it echoed
around it.
But I was happy to
be head-butted for it. Because ... it was a fight sequence, ...
and we said to each other beforehand, "Let's try to make
it as dirty as possible." Because fight sequences are so
often so clean in movies, and everybody is getting in clear punches
and etc. And my character's not going to be a fighter, and his
character is. And so right before the take, we said to each other,
"Let's really go for it." And hopefully we'll only have
to do it four or five times, instead of 20 or 30 times. And so
we really went for it. And we rolled down hills, and we were smacking
our heads on boulders and things like that as we went. And then
I stood up, and, you know, in the moment, Matthew just head-butted
me. But it was great, because we only had to do it once. Thankfully,
the camera was 50-50 on us, so they caught the impact exactly,
and that was it. We were done.
Quinn's not
exactly a superhero in this movie.
Bale:
Part of what I hoped would happen, and did, was that, you know,
this is a movie where nobody does anything that is impossible
for humans to do. ... If anything, with Quinn, the concern, looking
at the script, was just that Van Zan's character was so much more
sort of rock 'n' roll and like a rock star compared to Quinn,
that really my challenge was, all right, how am I going to make
Quinn kind of step up to the plate and be a genuine ... competition
to Van Zan, to such an insane character as Van Zan? ... We always
tried to keep every scene within the realms of reality. ... [Quinn]
feels responsibility somewhat for everything that has happened
since. And in doing that, and in not giving the character sort
of superhero status, that would help the audience to be able to
believe in the dragons and the dragon threat, which otherwise
obviously is not going to be any kind of threat at all, as we
all know dragons don't exist. So we had that challenge, of how
do you draw the audience in, to make them believe in it? And I
think the way to do that was for all of the characters to be as
real and gritty as possible.
Did you have
to work out very much for this role?
Bale:
I tend to be kind of obsessive about that. It's either all or
nothing. ... I actually turned up in Ireland, and I had been kind
of dieting, because I sort of thought we should all be painfully
skinny. But then, I got there, and had a few weeks of rehearsals
... and kind of realized that Van Zan was going to be a pretty
big guy. And I had to look at least a little bit like I could
compete with him somewhat. So I kind of went into manic training
for the couple of weeks of rehearsals, because I got there kind
of like that [sucks in cheeks], and I looked at Matthew and went,
"Oh my god, this just isn't going to work. Nobody's going
to believe that I could really have a decent fight with him at
all." So I worked out like crazy for a couple of weeks beforehand.
Can you talk
about working with the special effects?
Bale:
The most surprising thing for me was that we didn't use much blue
screen at all. I've spoken with some actor friends of mine who'd
made movies using a lot of blue screen, and they'd all told me
that it was very, very dull. And it was a 20-week schedule that
we had on Reign of Fire, so I was kind of thinking, it's really
going to be a chore. And I think, really, thankfully the technology
that they were using, I suppose, is more advanced, and we didn't
need any of that at all. So we could just be outside, wherever
we were, just filming, leaving space for the dragon, but not needing
any blue screen or anything at all. So I think that really helped
with kind of the momentum of each scene. And I also find it seems
to work so much better when you can be outside and get a little
dirty with the location, instead of this sort of hygienic surroundings
of blue screen on studio and everything.
You were working
on huge practical sets?
Bale:
Yeah, they were vast. Wolf Kroeger was the production designer,
and it actually was about seven acres that he built of castle
and castle wall, but it seemed so much bigger than that when we
were there. But the rest of it ... you're obviously having to
look at nothing. But ... it's kind of unfortunate, but in pretty
much every movie I've done, even if there aren't any special effects,
there's some point when you may be filming in a small room or
something, and the [director of photography] hasn't left enough
room to get another actor in behind the camera. So to an audience,
you're talking with somebody else. But when you're doing it, you're
talking to a brick wall. So that sort of gave me training for
looking at thin air. And I had all sorts of the artist's renderings
of the dragons in my changing room, etc. And ... I guess denial
is a big part of acting, really. So, with practice, you just get
used to it.
Are you signed
for a sequel?
Bale:
It's kind of been joked about. I bought a house after doing Reign
of Fire, and they went, "Oh, great. We've got him for the
sequel. He's got a mortgage now." But other than that, nobody's
mentioned anything.
Izabella Scorupco,
why did you sign on this movie?
Scorupco:
I've never really, honestly ... been into science-fiction movies.
... I've never seen one Star Trek in my whole life. It's not really
my world. I don't have that kind of fantasy [life] where I can
sit there and watch people doing something that I could never
believe in or would happen. But when I read the script, and especially
knowing Rob Bowman and seeing The X-Files, I just felt that if
ever I do a fantasy movie, or if there is every going to be a
movie shot about dragons that is going to make the dragons be
creepy, alien creatures, [this is it]. ...
To see the anatomy
of the dragon, to see the way it moved, to understand the attack,
to understand the chemical process ... it made it much more believable
for us as well to act with it. ... I never ... really thought
of it as a dragon. I ... wanted to put myself in a situation where
you feel like, this is the last second of my life, and we're attacked.
Not necessarily by an animal. This could be biological weapons
or planes or you name it. And to really make the audience understand
that we are scared. That we are really frightened to death. ...
As soon as we would go towards the cartoonish direction, that
would [be it].
You did a
lot of your own stunts?
Scorupco:
I just think it sounds so silly to talk, "Yeah, well, I did
my own stunts." But it was just a part of surviving. I ...
can't imagine it can get worse than this, ... being in a movie
with Christian and Matthew, the most physical, athletic guys you
can imagine in Hollywood, and this is like for real. These guys,
they climb and they do pushups and it's not anything phony whatsoever,
like they're pretending. If the director would say, "OK,
are you going to climb up there?" 20 meters or whatever,
... they just do it in a second. And there you are, you're like
a third party, and they never ask you. ... And you felt like,
"OK, if I'm not going to do it, I'm going to destroy the
scene." ... But I felt like I was scared to death.
In Vertical Limit,
it was more about, "Are you OK, Bella?" ... Here it
was like, "OK, we do it now. One, two, three." Oh my
god. It was a totally different story. ... Two guys that are as
physically strong as they are, they just get further and further.
Because one is going to say, "Yeah, I can climb this high."
The other one is going to go, "Yeah, but I can do that one."
... Not competitive in terms of trying to show off. But they're
boys. ... That's how guys are. It's just nature. But I'm definitely
not a part of it. But I had to [keep up]. ... I could hear my
beard growing during that time. ... I didn't want to be treated
differently. ... You had to spit around as much as they did.
Did you ever
feel like, oh my God, what have I got myself into?
Scorupco:
Pretty much. Pretty often. Yeah, I have to say. ... I definitely
felt that it was extremely scary sometimes to have to keep up
with the guys, because they never really cared. I mean, they never
cared. It was crazy. They would like jump down from roofs, and
if you wouldn't, they'd be like, "What's going on, what's
happening? Why?" I mean, I guess because I come across as
[tough and] ... because I so wanted them to do their thing and
wanted to be a part of [it], ... then you can't really, you can't
afford to say, "I need help." Or "please."
Because you just don't want to mess up. You don't want to be the
one, you know, destroying [it] for everyone else.
Source -
www.scifi.com